Giveaway Cheater Exposed: Top Internet Marketer Cheating And Stealing Commissions
Recently I have discovered that one of the top referrers that you can find in (almost) all giveaway events (usually on the top 5 referrers) is cheating and stealing commissions from other honest marketers…
To be honest, this was not a surprise for me. Back in 2008 I have caught the same person cheating… Last year I had several giveaway events set up using the Giveaway Manager 2 script… As you may know, when a giveaway event set up with this script opens for regular members sign-up, all the visitors of the contributors sign-up page are automatically redirected to the members sign-up page, so nobody can sign-up as a contributor anymore…
I don’t know how, but this cheater managed to get people to sign-up as contributors AFTER the event started to accept members, and due to this fact he increased the ranking of his gift (an affiliate usually gets more ranking points for bringging in contributors)…
I have banned him on one of my past events and accepted him back only after he promised that will be a good boy and will not use his cheating system again (at least on my sites)…
A few days ago I have discovered that this person has found another way to cheat: stealing commissions… I have discovered that when he was stealing my commissions for The Apprentice Giveaway…
When a new event is announced, a lot of marketers are sending out promotional messages… Usually, I open the first message that gets my attention, click the link inside that message, sign up, upgrade (or not), etc,…
Well, our cheater has a different approach… But first, for better understanding, let’s give him a name: I’ll call him Mr. Z
The cheating technique is very simple:
Mr. Z is not signing up directly through the affiliate link of his referrer…
First he uses a phoney name: let’s call this one Mr. V… He signs up as Mr. V, skips the OTO(s), and grabs the affiliate link…
After that, he signs up as Mr. Z using Mr. V’s affiliate link, pays for the upgrade, and starts promoting his new affiliate link…
This works very well with the giveaway sites using Giveaway Manager 2 and the sites using Ultimate JV Giveaway Script if the instant affiliate payments are not enabled and all the commissions are paid usually at the end of that event, through a mass payment…
So the referrer gets no commissions and Mr. V gets the commissions instead…
Also, Mr. V has the nasty habit to sign up for new giveaways through my affiliate link… He really loves me, doesn’t he? This way, Mr. Z have stolen my commissions for his sign up for The Apprentice Giveaway and for many other past events…
I have checked my stats for all my past events and I have no doubt about what I am talking here… But there is more: as you know, all decent autoresponder sites are capturing the IP address of the subscriber… I have checked my autoresponder accounts for those events and guess what? Mr. Z and Mr. V are sharing the exact same IP address…
I have not the time to check this issue thoroughly, but I have reasons to believe that not all his referral are real persons and not some phoney email addresses…
If you want to know who Mr. V is, go to (almost) any giveaway event and look for a contributor that has 0 member referrals and (usually) only 1(one) contributor referral (upgraded, of course)… Also, Mr. V never submits a gift…
These techniques reminds me of a famous cheater, exposed last year: Michael Pinder, aka Daniel Armstrong, aka a big list of phoney names, too long to put it here… I have no proof for what I’m about to tell you, but I think that Mr. Z, aka Mr. V is in fact Michael Pinder, aka Daniel Armstrong aka whatever-you-want-to-call-him… But, like I’ve just said, I have no proof for that and this is strictly my opinion and MUST NOT be taken as a real fact…
Due to this fact, I will not publicly expose this cheater’s name, but all the well know giveaway events owners are invited to contact me for details…
Also, I will allow Mr. Z / Mr. V to reply and defend himself BEFORE deleting his accounts on the 2 giveaway events of mine that are still opened… Just to be fair….
Finally, I am inviting all of you comment below… BTW, I have the "Do Follow" plugin activated on this blog and I will approve all decent comments… One restriction applies: If you can guess who Mr. Z / Mr. V is, don’t reveal that on your comment…
Hi Paul,
What a shame. I guess some people cheat, steal, lie, etc., for ‘kicks’, or just because they can? I don’t understand it at all.
Lotta whacked out people running around loose out there. I personally think, once you are certain and can prove it, that you should ‘out’ the guy!
Hi Paul,
You should reveal the cheaters name to all Giveaway organizers that way they know the cheater.
Is there no way, to put in the script, that someone can not sign up twice from the same IP address,even with a different name?
Thing about it,and let me know.
I have a good friend who is a developer of scripts maybe he knows what to do to prevent that.
Have a nice day,
Hans W.Castiglioni
Thanks for the heads up Paul.
This guy might be a good referer of contributors, but he must be a pretty poor marketer if he can\’t afford $17 or $27 for an upgrade… Sad!
Dave
Thank yo very much for sharing this information.I must say that I signed up to many events that you promoted, and all of them where great for building my list,and you should get credited for your hard work.
You know that eventually all those that cheat are cought, even if sometimes it takes time.
Keep up with those great givaways.
I hope that it’s OK that I’m putting my url below.
Jack Vidal
The Niche Navigator
I have already been contacted by several top giveaway organizers and I told them all they need to know… BTW, I found him on your site too, both with the phoney and the real (?) name… Contact me for details…
Now you have told everyone how to do this maybe that was your intention.
All known cheaters should be made public so the rest of us do not add funds to his war chest.
Just my thoughts….. Or we could package them up someway and deposit them into the middle of Iran.
Some people are just born losers.They get off by trying to show how smart they are by “beating” the system.I feel sorry for him for feeling so inadequate with his marketing skills.
Formaly requesting IP address of this person.
My cPanel would love to have it in the BAN section.
…Rodger
Paul,
A word of thanks for bring this problem to light for others and for also extending the curtesy of not announcing the name of the person involved. I am new to the giveaways as a contributor. I still struggle with building a business. I am not willing to cheat but I also do not run giveaways so do not believe that it is necessary for me to know the name of the person. I do agree that those who are running the giveaways should know who this person is to help protect the other contributors. I applaud all of the ones running giveaways that are willing to share this type of information and protect their guests, members and contributors. Whoever said that there is no honesty to be found online truly does not know what they are talking about. Hats off to all of you for giving me one more reason to know I really am on the right path.
Thank you so much,
Mary Kellner Coon (makingmagic)
http://heartfeltglobal.info/gift
Hey Paul, it’s me, “Mr. Z.” as you call me (I’m Not hiding).
Wow, never thought anything so simple and straight forward as this could ever get blown so far out of proportion (and so totally misunderstood), because it’s really not that way at all.
I’m definitely not cheating, and this is definitely not right publicly calling me a cheater, when you haven’t even first reviewed our concerns with me reasonably and amicably in private. (Am I right?)
Would you want me (or anyone else for that matter) denouncing you publicly, without first airing my concerns with you privately? (You should know I would never do it that way with you or anyone.)
You have my personal email address, and I can tell you more about my personal and confidential marketing plans and methods privately, as need
may be, okay? (Hey, you need to preserve some confidentiality about your own plans too, don’t you?)
All are definitely legit, honest, legal and ethical. And all of your various surmisings are definitely not as you fear – you’re just overlooking the obvious (and you’re going to smack yourself square on the forehead when you realize it).
Hope we can resolve this all professionally, as honest fellow marketers should, and continue working together in future giveaways as friends, avoiding slander and unfounded accusations. Can we? (Thanks with great hope in advance.)
Looking forward to your thoughtful and considerate, personal email soon.
-Zech Smith
Hi Paul,
It’s brave of you to expose this person. Sometimes, people are afraid to make the first move for fear of being labeled as an accuser.
I’m really curious and I’ll certainly logon to those giveaway events you’d mentioned to check out who this person is.
Btw, you mentioned that because commissions are paid at the end of the event and this lead to the referrer not being paid but that Mr. V gets the commissions instead. How is this so? I’m not familiar with the system. Perhaps, you can elaborate a bit so that we can have a better understanding.
Thanks for the effort!
Hey Paul
Thanks for the information. I have coded in a IP check into my script that will not allow more than one account per IP address. It will be available in the next release
Scott
I feel your pain from this chicanery, it is one of the saddest things about the ‘anonymous’ world of online business, that people can do this and get away with it (at least for a while).
That said, the words of one of my mentors may help. He says: “Digital theft will happen. GET OVER IT.” (Yes, he shouts it!
)
The message is this – don’t let anger and angst over it affect your attitude to the point it takes your focus AWAY from what really matters – working your business.
Giveaways, by their very nature (being free) attract a certain kind of prospect. And taking that prospect to the point where they turn into repeat buyers is a long, often hard route. But using giveaways to build a list and then delight that ilst with value is a great strategy, if you’re patient enough to work it.
And if you are, then the OTO’s and direct sales aren’t what matters most. The list you build from giving away value is the important thing. And nurturing the relationship with that list will generate such massive profits, you’ll GLADLY give away the front-end profits to anyone who’ll refer you more of these prospects.
It’s taking a different perspective, flipping the coin to see the other side, which will make such a paradigm shift in your business approach, you’ll be grinning to the bank – even when someone ‘steals’ your commissions!
Hope this helps. I do have an ebook that goes into detail about how I do this, but won’t link to it here, as that isn’t the point of this comment. What I’m trying to show is a mindset change that takes what apparently is a ‘negative’ and turning it into a serious ‘positive’ to your business – one Mr.V can never hope to achieve by sneaky tactics.
Believe me, I’ve seen more of them go down in flames in the last 15 years!
All success
Dr.Mani
All I can say is good for you…..
1 scammer squished like a bug….
I have had many scammers in my day like a guy bought 200 bucks of products with echecks and guess what canceled all of them I caught him and reported to paypal and his account was shut down and still is today…
I had also had a member tell me he bought a product
of mine and gave me only a transaction # and said he did not get the download….I check his members are and transaction # . He made a purchase 6 months before but no new trans record …I asked for the paypal receipt to be send and guess what NO REPLY BACK…He thought I would fall for it and just send the download…..with out checking…
Scammers are all over the place ….YOU MUST BE ON YOUR TOES….
Thanks
Greg Lloyd
Yesterday, after reading your blog post I have noticed something fishy going on at my own giveaway event.
and what i have noticed was:
1. one contributor signed up with two different names.
2. the first name sent a link to the second name so he got his commission when the second upgraded.
3. yesterday i have noticed something like 40-45 sign ups under this guy and it looked strange to me.
4. all these contributors are with yahoo and lycos emails.
5. all these contributors haven’t upgraded.
6. all these contributors haven’t added any gift.
7. all these contributors haven’t added any picture.
8. none of them confirmed aweber.
8. any of these users did not referred any other users.
and the strangest thing is that stats show 4100% conversion and all from 1 Affiliate Link Hit.
of course, this guy jumped to the first place on my contributors list.
So I guess something wrong with this guy but i don’t know what to do about it.
What would you do in such case?
Hi Paul,
It’s just unbelievable how far people can go for a quick buck or to get that top ranking on the referrals list. I’d rather be on Google’s top rankings…
Well, apparently “Mr. Z” has revealed himself here, so I would like to hear about the outcome of your “talk” with him.
Hi Paul
Thanks for the info – although I don’t know if it was such a good idea to reveal the tactics used to steal commissions… I just can’t imagine that Mr Z. would be the only one trying to break the ‘rules’…
Hi: Thanks for the info. I am new to the giveaways as a contributor. I have read all the posts. MR.Z Zeck he calls himself in the post says he has a explanation. Why not post your explanation here so I can understand? If you are not hiding anything then you should not have a problem answering ,,, right? I want to know the Internet Marketing plan you have also. I am just loving this event and would love to know more. Thanks, for this event and the opportunity to build my list and maybe make more friends
. Janice Stewart
The problem (or opportunity depending on your viewpoint) is one of human nature. People, especially successful people, try to maximize their return. Since you can not change human nature, you must craft the rules of your systems to achieve your goals while being careful not to cripple it by limiting the creativity of your members, thus driving them away and/or limiting their (and your) results.
It is wiser to accept, reward and profit from human nature as it is rather than to expect it to change or worse, to try to change it. Trying to limit those you sponsor or sell to simply drives away the most productive and thus limits your growth, so your challenge is to craft a system where your best interests are served when other\\\\\\\’s best interests are served. Rules like \\\\"you can not buy from yourself\\\\" simply do not work. Do you think that the owner of a retail store goes next door and pays retail when he could buy at wholesale from himself? Of course not!
The simplest solution to align your interests with your customers and resellers best interest is to own (or otherwise share marketing interest in) the product so that all sales benefit both you and whoever sells them. If you can, with a minimum of restrictions, create a similar benefit for all who sell \\\\"your\\\\" products, human nature will reward you with a maximum return.
People work together best when their profit motives are aligned. Your marketing customers are likely to work for and invest in their own self interest, reward and profit and to reject any attempts to limit them so, in your own best interest, learn to profit from rewarding human nature as it is.
I’m intending for this all to come clear as soon as may be, and I understand all you’re concerns. But I’m being considerate of Paul by giving him a chance to write me and clear the air privately, and let him decide how much he wants to air out here publicly, once he realizes what’s really going on.
Honestly, I thought someone else would likely guess the obvious by now. But let’s give Paul a chance to clear it up privately before we publicize it further, shall we? You can go ahead and guess if you want, and you think you know, otherwise stay tuned and hopefully we’ll all find out the easy way, okay Paul?
Looking forward to receiving your email soon. I really bear no grudges and am hoping for a long term relationship.
BTW, Jerry, I liked your post, and while I do look out for my own interest (and hope you all take Jerry’s advice too), I also do my best to look out for everyone else’s best interest as well. I believe helping everyone else is the best way of helping yourself, and besides, you deserve it, don’t you?
I think you do, and I’ll do my level best to help you, always.
Gotta get back to work, serving my customers.
Best to everyone!
As Scot Case said IP check must be used. The human nature is difficult to be changed.
In general all we must work together and provide customers with best gifts and continuous value to keep them interested.
Wow! I lose internet for only just a week and this is what I am catching up on.
First and foremost, Giveaway events are done to help EVERYONE out on the internet, and just with a couple of people who are not abiding by the rules of the event, I just do not understand it.
I have been in many events, I have seen many things that go on, and frankly I am getting really sick and tired of the “cheaters” out there.
Is there not a way to take a script and add a couple of the fields in there so that the same i.p. address cannot be used more than once? I think that this would alleviate all of the cheaters that join these events. If not all but at least 90% of them.
Btw Paul, I received your email a week ago and that was the time that there was a severe storm in the western north carolina area and it fried my modem, so I will be sending you an email later today.
Thank you for being one of the honest ones on the internet.
Hi: Right now I am LIVID, at what is happening in this JV Giveaway. I have a direct email from someone taking my commission!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so angry I am shaking. Can you believe that I receive a email in one of my other email accounts, and who is it from? ME! But it is not my link in the email. Everything is to the tee on the promotion email but “my link has been replaced by someone else” I have tried to forward the email to the return address both in the email and the sender. Both are sent back as non existing. I am TRYING SO HARD to make some money on the internet. I have had my Click Bank Id stolen and now this. Who can I contact to send the CHEATERS email to? I want this person caught I really do, so that no one else needs to loose there commission like I did. You know what is ironic about this. I want to buy the OTO’s so bad, but I do not have a lot of money for them, because I am trying to do Affiliate Marketing the right and legal way. I buy what I can. It is hard if not imposable when people keep STEALING any commission I make. Any contact information as to who I can send my information to would be very much appreciated. And for YOU the CHEATER…….. your days are numbered, I have your email and link. Sick and Tired of loosing my commissions Janice Stewart